Jacob Tobia./ Vero Bielinski ©.

Puedes leer esta entrevista traducida a español. Agradecemos a Sejal Shah su apoyo traduciendo título y arranque al inglés.

I met Jacob Tobia almost five years ago, shortly after arriving in South Africa, right in the middle of the austral winter. Jacob was one of the first people to invite me over for dinner. Jacob was also one of the first to take me gallivanting through the thronging Johannesburg night, to parties that white privileged classes didn’t usually go. It’s with giddiness I remember their black high heels, their red lips, their lensless wire frame glasses and their rainbow socks sticking out over their extra tight jeans. Occasionally a bright feather earring hung from their ear, or some brooch Jacob had made by hand. When Jacob danced, it was impossible to ignore them. Electrifying. Jacob moved with a grace I’ve rarely seen, catching the eye of all those present, who rushed over to greet them or take a selfie.

At the time, Jacob was doing research on the South African LGBTIQ movement during apartheid. An American with Syrian roots, Jacob has put the genderqueer community on the map. When I met them, Jacob was only a student. Now, at only 26 years of age, Jacob writes for the New York Times, has worked on the TV show Transparent, has featured on MTV, and is to publish their memoirs.

In this interview, we talk to Jacob about genderqueer identity, the LGBTIQ community, racism, pop culture, privilege, freedom of speech and Donald Trump. Read and enjoy.

Jacob, you fight strongly defending your identity. We want to understand what genderqueer means. Tell us, how do you live your identity?

For me, genderqueer identity is about learning to liberate your gender expression from the idea of masculinity and femininity. I don’t live my life trying to be a man anymore, and I don’t live my life trying to be a woman. I simply try to live my life in whatever way feels good for me, regardless of what I’m “supposed to do” as someone who was assigned male at birth. Just because I have a certain type of body doesn’t mean that I should have to obey the rules of manhood as they were taught to me.

US is a country full of ideological contrasts. How is to be queer in rural areas compared to urban spaces? In your particular case, which challenges did you face and how did you address them?

Like many places, there is a pretty substantial divide between rural areas and urban areas in terms of acceptance for the queer community and for gender nonconforming people. In many rural areas, gender nonconforming people face greater harassment and discrimination, and many gender nonconforming people who live in rural areas can feel fairly alone. I think that the internet is changing that somewhat by helping to connect people across geographies, but nothing can fully replace the impact and importance of a local community of people who can support you.

You spent some time in South Africa working on your thesis about LGBTIQ struggles in the rainbow nation. What did you learn from South African experience?  Should US LGBTIQ community learn or be inspired by South African comrades?

The primary lesson that I learned from studying the South African queer struggle is that non-intersectional LGBTQ movements are doomed to fail. LGBTQ movements can only be effective if they incorporate everyone in the queer community and take on issues outside of those that are “just” LGBTQ issues. In the context of South Africa, the LGBTQ movement had to challenge both homophobia and racism/colorism under Apartheid in order to liberate queer people. And there is still so much work to do. Both in the US and in South Africa, so many white queers do not understand or fight for the needs of queer people of color. As a movement, we have to do better than that and have to challenge white queers to take a more principled, intersectional stand.

How is the relation between genderqueer and transsexual community? Do you share the same agenda?

In my view, gender nonconforming people are a key part of the transgender community. Whether you’re transitioning from one gender to “the other,” or living somewhere in between, whether you’re choosing to pursue transition-based healthcare or not, trans and gender nonconforming people all need one thing: gender self-determination, the ability to choose our gender for ourselves and express it without facing discrimination. So I feel that gender nonconforming people and trans people are all in the same family, all part of the same struggle for freedom.

Which are your key allies? Is there any community defending queergender identity?

By focusing on the prison system, police profiling, and many other issues, I think that the movement for racial justice in the United States is a profound ally of the genderqueer and gender nonconforming community. The systems that most negatively impact trans people of color are our common cause and represent an important rallying point for us all. When we challenge police brutality or challenge prison culture, we are liberating both people of color and gender nonconforming people who are brutalized by those systems in the United States.

Currently there´s a proliferation of trans and non-binary gender people at the movies, TV shows and fashion world. Is that a progress, or the pop culture is emptying the community subversive potential?

I think that progress in pop culture can be mixed. Greater trans visibility has been really important for the community and has helped people understand that they are not alone. It has also done a great deal to help cisgender people understand the trans and gender nonconforming community. That being said, pop culture tends to flatten out the trans experience, to oversimplify the trans story and cut out some of the more profound messages. So I think now we have a lot of work to do to deepen the story, to have a more complicated, less one-dimensional conversation. That’s what I’m committed to doing in my own career as a writer and as a producer.

Some people think that queer identities (non-binary, gender fluid…) have thrown into crisis to fag and butch identities. What do you think about this?

I think that fag and butch identities can live in tandem with genderqueer/nonbinary/gender fluid identities. As a self-identified genderqueer faggot sissy lady gay boy, I don’t feel that there is any competition or contradiction between these terms. They’re merely different ways to describe ourselves. In my opinion, the more words we have to describe ourselves, the better off we are!

Taking into account the intersection of race and class, do you consider yourself a privileged person?

As a white-passing Arab American who’s had access to an elite education, I certainly have a great deal of privilege in the world. For me, accountability to that privilege looks like doing everything in my power to further trans storytelling and share queer stories. Because I’ve been given access to people with the funds to produce films, because I’ve been able to connect with people who publish books, I’m trying to use those avenues for the benefit of my community. By advancing my voice in the public sphere, I hope that I am mobilizing my privilege for the community.

Sylvia Riviera or Marsha P. Johnsons are considered Queer cross-dressers, black, latin and sex workers idols. Do you think that the academy and activism now is more privileged and white? Where are these idols currently?

The academy has always been super white, and queer academics of color have always had to fight to have their voices heard within it. That being said, I hope that the recognition of feminist intellectuals of color like Roxane Gay and Kimberle Crenshaw is helping to advance the position of people of color and queer people within the academy. There is still so much work to do in that arena though.

Almost 50 years after Stonewall, is LGBTIQ community more revolutionary or conservative?

I think that depends on who you ask. The LGBTQ community is the most conservative and the most revolutionary it’s ever been. On the one hand, you have legions of white gay men working in the financial sector and at banks who have amassed immense financial control and have fairly conservative approaches to LGBTQ activism.  But queer revolutionaries in the United States and globally have also never been more vocal or more connected in our history. So you still have an incredible, revolutionary movement that is continuing to change the world. I just wish that more conservative people in the LGBTQ community, those who have access to resources and funds, would find ways to fund queer revolutionaries and support their work.

Recently an ultracatholic and transphobic bus has been trying to go across Spain, with a message saying “Boys have penis. Girls have vulva. Do not be fooled”. This caused a strong discussion in the country, focused on the Freedom of speech and hate speech. Where is the red line?

That’s a tough question for me, one that I’m always trying to figure out. I think that freedom of speech is very important, because the moment we start controlling the speech of people who speak out against us, they may try to do the same thing to us. But freedom of speech has never been applied equally in society. Those in power always have the ability to speak more loudly and with more volume than those without power. So it’s a double-edged sword. We need freedom of speech in order to protest and transform the world around us. But freedom of speech also enables those who are fighting against us to do so more loudly. It’s a tough one, and I don’t want to pretend that I have an easy answer.

Republicans party (GOP) victory put at risk LGBTIQ community and achieved rights?

The Republican Party in the United States is complete garbage, a sad excuse for a political coalition that is rife with corruption, nepotism, egotism, arrogance, racism, sexism, transphobia, and every other bad thing you can think of. Any time a Republican is in power, everyone needs to be afraid for their rights and freedoms. Over the past three decades of American history, Republicans have done everything in their power to make the poor poorer and the rich richer, to make the weak weaker and the powerful more powerful. Democrats certainly aren’t perfect, but Republicans are simply vile. So yes, GOP victory absolutely puts the queer community at risk, along with every other community in the United States.

Last question. You have a blind date with Donald Trump. What would you say to him?

If someone set me up on a blind date with Donald Trump, I would have to seriously reconsider my friendship with that person. Like, why would you ever set me up on a blind date with Donald Trump? I think the moment I laid eyes on him in person, I would probably vomit.